Author Topic: Which bike to flip?  (Read 1009 times)

Offline HerrOtto

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Which bike to flip?
« on: February 13, 2023, 04:11:04 PM »
I have a 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix(Gazzle (Holland) that needs a fork. I purchased a 1977 Raleigh Record Ltd (Canada) solely for its fork to place on the Grand Prix. Now I am undecided which bike to fix up and eventually , flip. Both bikes are in fair shape. The Grand Prix has Simplex components, quick release rims, down tube shifters and cottered steel crank set. The Record Ltd has Suntour components,stem shifters and a cotterless alloy crank set. If I were keeping the bike for myself to ride, I would take the best components and make one decent bike, but since I will be flipping the bike, I would like your opinion, on which bike in its native state, is better to flip? If I use the fork (blue) from the Record and place it on the Grand Prix (white) I will have to paint it black to match the decals on the Grand Prix. Matching the faded white will be very difficult. Thank you

Offline rickpaulos

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2023, 10:15:22 PM »
What is the frame size for each?   (25, 23, 21"?)

Also note the real Raleighs used a different threading on the forks.   26 tpi vs 24 tpi for most of the rest (not french).   In the 1970s Raleigh was making Records and Gran(d) Prix bikes in England, Ireland, the Dutch Gazelle factory, Canada and Oklahoma.  They should all be 26 tpi but....   Same spec as the 1 and 3 speed models.  The Carlton built Reynolds 531 Raleighs would all be 24 tpi. 

If you went with any other brand of fork, you would need a 24tpi headset.

Your local bike shop won't have a 26 tpi fork threader if you need to cut one down to fit.

The Raleigh Pro Shop I worked at during the 1970s waxed every bike.  The wax of the time was bee's wax based and turns yellow after some years.  Just cleaning a white frame may get rid of the fade.

Raleigh also had their own bb threading. Again, 26 tpi vs English which is 24 tpi and is used in most bikes (not french made or italian bikes).  The alloy cranks on the Record LTD were Japanese and might be 24 tpi.

You might want to own a thread pitch gauge set.  The most useful sets have metric and whitworth sizes.

The Record LTD was the upgraded Record with Japanese parts.  Same frame but with new and improved colors.  Most of the bigger European bike companies switched from Simplex to Suntour in the mid to late 1970s.  Raleigh, Peugeot, Motobecane, Gitane, etc.  Most of the plastic Simplex derailleurs and shift levers have broken by now or will soon if you try to use them. Suntour & Shimano jockey wheels won't fit on Simplex rear derailleurs.

I'd fix both bikes up.  Raleigh used the same carbon steel for both frames.  The lugs were different.  IMO, the Gran(d) Prix looked better than the Record (& Sprite) frames.

"We shows girls love on Valentine's Day, and they let us blow things up on the Fourth of July. I just pray they never fall on the same day."  HS.

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Offline HerrOtto

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2023, 09:30:41 AM »
Rick, thanks for the great information. Both bikes are 21", though they actually measure 21 1/2". Unfortunately, I only have one fork between the two bikes and some other misc. parts are missing from the Record. So I only have enough parts for one complete bike. I also found out that the rear derailleur on the Grand Prix has been changed to a Shimano SIS. 
When I flip a bike, I really do not make much on them, especially if I consider my time. That's one of the reasons I try to keep my parts cost to a minimum.

Offline HerrOtto

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2023, 09:33:37 AM »
Rick, just out of curiosity, do you think the 1977 Record Ltd alloy crankset would fit the 1974 Grand Prix, or would they be different threads per inch? Thank you

Offline rickpaulos

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2023, 11:35:41 AM »
They should both be 26 tpi.  If you pull the left side bb cups out, you can hold the threads together to see if they mesh perfectly (ie, the same).

Not all bb cups are the same. Some are thicker or thinner.  I've run into this problem before.  Ofmega race cranks have very thin cup walls and the correct axle has the bearing surfaces farther apart.  Some of the older Raleigh cups are quite thick.  On the two Raleighs, you can hold the 2 axles together to see how the bearing spacing lines up.  The overall length won't compare with cottered vs tapered axles/cranks.  Even if the threading is different on the two Raleighs, you can probably just swap the axle and cranks.

I had a Italian bike in for repair where the Ofmega crank axle snapped off at the end.  The Italian bikes have a different bb threading which isn't found in most parts bins.  The Ofmega Italian threaded cups are very thin and the bearing spacing is very wide. Regular axles required the left cup be threaded completely in to the bb.  Not workable. I had to replace the Italian threaded cups with thicker cups of some other brand.

To toss in another complication, bb shells are made in several widths.  68, 70 or 72/73 mm.  (and 100 or wider for modern fat bikes)  The wider the bb shell, the wider the bearing spacing needs to be on the axle.  The best bottom brackets, the Shimano UN- series of sealed bearing cartridge types, come in a 2 dimension spec.  bb width x overall axle length.  Like 68x110 or 72x115, etc.  They make those bbs in about 8 different lengths, the 3 widths and about 8 grade levels (UN-52, UN54, etc.)  I put Shimano UN bb's in many of my personal bikes.  They last nearly forever are super smooth and never need any maintenance.  The only ones I see ruined are those used by year round commuters in the rust belt.



"We shows girls love on Valentine's Day, and they let us blow things up on the Fourth of July. I just pray they never fall on the same day."  HS.

A:jan B:feb C:mar D:apr E:may F:jun G:jul H:aug J:sep K:oct L:nov M:dec
A65 B66 C67 D68 E69 F70 G71 H72 J73 K74 L75 M76 N77 P78 Q79 R80 S81 T82 U83 V84

Offline HerrOtto

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2023, 02:01:28 PM »
Thanks Rick, once again, very informative.

Offline Schwinndemonium

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Re: Which bike to flip?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2023, 10:40:04 AM »
I have a 1976 Raleigh Record that someone had out for trash because the plastic Simplex rear derailleur had broken off and was gone. I replaced it with a Shimano unit from a late model mountain bike back around 2012.The bike looks and works great again. There is a pic of it in the Gallery.

Beautiful entry level 10 speed bike.

Jim.
Still me after all these years. Just older, grayer and saggier.