Author Topic: Another Paramount Qustion  (Read 1145 times)

Offline jimsbeercans

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Another Paramount Qustion
« on: May 26, 2012, 06:16:37 AM »
There is another chrome Paramount listed on the bay this morning.

What are the difference between a P13-9 and a P15-9  ??

Both look identical other than color in the Schwinn Catalog.

These are great to research but everything has been different one bike to another.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290718110575&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline Charlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 06:32:21 AM »
P-13 has double chain wheel (10 speed). P-15 has triple chain wheel (15 speed) and fender eyelets.
1886 50" VICTOR, 1888 52" Expert Columbia, 1892 54" expert Columbia,
1895 Model 43 Columbia Tandem,
1968 Schwinn Mini Twinn
1968 Schwinn Run-A-Bout Green & Brown
1974 Schwinn P-15 Paramount
1979 Schwinn P-13 Paramount
1988 Schwinn P-13 Paramount Frame Set

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 06:40:50 AM »
Thanks Charlie.

So any 1970 Paramount 15 speeds are Diamond Jubilee Bikes??
The one listed is built about a month later than mine. A few components differ between them.

Asking for a few more pics just for my info later.

Still digging on his claim about the seat. I thought they were always Brooks.
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline Eric Amlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 07:42:20 AM »
Still digging on his claim about the seat. I thought they were always Brooks.

I believe the Cinelli Unicanitor was an optional saddle.

As stated on the auction page, the "Diamond Jubilee" just refers to 1970 being Schwinn's 75th anniversary.

AFAIK, 1970 was the first year the P15 was offered although I've seen earlier Paramounts with Campagnolo triples on them. Those cranksets didn't have the special drilling for the 36 tooth 100mm bcd chainring though.
Wanted: 1963 Schwinn Superior

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 08:23:58 AM »
ok.

Today will post pics of what I do have.
Been trying myself to find another Brooks Professional to replace this Serfas that's on it.
The bay has them but not exactly in my price range.

The rest has been verified and found through Kurt pages on the Paramount Registry.

Hate asking him q's all the time! He has been very helpful.
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline bartcycle

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 09:16:23 AM »
P 13 has cable clips for the rear brake and the P 15 has cable stops.

Offline Eric Amlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 09:33:55 AM »
P 13 has cable clips for the rear brake and the P 15 has cable stops.

It depends on the year.

The sixties vintage P13 had the same top tube braze-on cable stops for the rear brake that the later P10/P15 have.
Sometime around 1972 the P13 got a frame geometry & fork change and the braze-ons were eliminated.
Wanted: 1963 Schwinn Superior

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2012, 09:55:06 AM »
Here is what I have. I guess by the notes I need to explore this more.

The side pull DURA ACE ( OLDER block wording) I have q's about. On the registry is on about 6 months before this one was built that has them also.

Rear Derailleur is a Campy Rally.

I suspect miss matched parts from a LBS awhile back but the owner said original. The handle bars are Ritchey so I know this is wrong.

All works great together as a combo!

What do you guys think?

1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline Eric Amlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 01:16:31 PM »
What is the serial number of your bike? It's kind of a combination of things.

I don't think either the Dura Ace brakes or the Rally derailleur are original to the bike.

I don't see top tube cable stop braze-ons or eyelets, so that says P13 to me, although the fork still has the earlier "English" bend to it.

The changes to the P13 don't seem to have come all at the same time. Your's appears to be a transitional P13(I'll guess '71-'72) that has had some of the components swapped out. The crankset is the Campy triple that the P15 used.

Kurt really is the guy to talk to on this. He's studied it more than I have. Stan Cooper(Scooper) knows a lot about it as does our own Bob Hufford I think.
Wanted: 1963 Schwinn Superior

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 01:27:57 PM »
The serial number is L7042.

So it may be a 1971.
The bike built 8 before this one is listed as a 1970 but everything has been changed.
But unclear myself.

After reading a bunch of the the Rally DR has never came up. Do you guys know if these are dated where I can read it?
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline Eric Amlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2012, 01:37:46 PM »
I don't remember if the Rallys are dated or not, but there are different generations of them that you can use to get a general date. Yours appears to be either a first or second generation.

My '71 P15 came with a Campy Gran Turismo rear derailleur which does not shift very well. I replaced it with a Rally. I'll bet I'm not the only one to do that. The later('73 and on?) P15s used the Schwinn LeTour 300(or whatever the name is), basically a rebadged Shimano Crane GS. I think the Shimano is probably a better derailleur than the Rally also. I wanted to stick with Campy on my bike though.
Wanted: 1963 Schwinn Superior

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2012, 01:52:30 PM »
Your 71 P15 has cable stops then?? So mine might be a P13 with upgrades.

Darn,  Family at the door. Will take this up when I can.

Thanks for all the info.
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..

Offline Charlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2012, 02:10:01 PM »
My 1974 P-15 has Schwinn Approved Le Tour GT 300 on it. Got it new, never been riden.
1886 50" VICTOR, 1888 52" Expert Columbia, 1892 54" expert Columbia,
1895 Model 43 Columbia Tandem,
1968 Schwinn Mini Twinn
1968 Schwinn Run-A-Bout Green & Brown
1974 Schwinn P-15 Paramount
1979 Schwinn P-13 Paramount
1988 Schwinn P-13 Paramount Frame Set

Offline Eric Amlie

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2012, 02:14:03 PM »
Yes, my bike has the cable stops though you can see in the photo that I'm not presently using them. I have a set of Campy Gran Sport brakes on the bike and am using the cable clamps that the later P13s used. I will be returning the brakes to stock when I have time. You can also see the 2nd generation Rally rear derailleur that I put on the bike.

I think most likely your bike is a P13 that has had some components swapped out. This is not necessarily an upgrade, but just suits the owner's preferences.

My '71 P15

Wanted: 1963 Schwinn Superior

Offline jimsbeercans

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Re: Another Paramount Qustion
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 06:40:04 AM »
All great info. Love the pics also.

I guess I mis-typed on this. Upgrades are a very strong wording in this case. Meant to say changed.

Noticed down tube decals that are red and really "pops" against the chrome. Will line a set up for my winter detailing.
1967 Coppertone Varsity
1970 Schwinn Paramount p 13-9 in Chrome
1971 Super Sport in Burgundy
1963 American 2 speed
1959 Traveler 3 speed
thinning the heard..