Author Topic: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem  (Read 961 times)

Offline Buster1

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Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« on: April 14, 2012, 12:20:08 PM »
Might be tough to see below, but my wife's '58 Hornet has always "parked" near vertical, as compared to my Jaguar that seems to have a more "normal" lean.  The only reason I bring this up is that her bike will fall over to the other side even with a slight breeze!

When the Hornet kickstand is up, the bar parks very close to the rear spokes and is "inside" the chainstay as opposed to being seated along the chainstay like my Jag.  Is this normal?  I am pretty sure the kickstand housing on the frame is welded at a slightly "tight" angle which is causing this.  Her kickstand is straight.

Should I try to adjust this?  I don't have a torch and was beating the kickstand with a hammer (after removing it from the bike of course) to try to give it a little less angle, but that didn't help a lot.

Ideas from the crew?  Thx!


Offline GTs58

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 03:25:52 PM »
That's a strange situation and I've been trying to think of some causes. Only two things that come to mind is length and the angles. Is the Hornet stand the same length as the Jag? There must have been a hundred different stands made with different lengths, bends and finishes. If the stand tube that's welded to the frame is angled back more it would position the stand further back towards the wheel but I don't think it would effect the upright position of the bike a whole lot. The angles on both stands look identical to me in the pics but can't say for sure, or if they are the same length. If both have 26" wheels the stand should be the exact same piece for both bikes. If the Hornet stand is different than the Jag stand in angle or length, someone may have replaced the one on the Hornet.  ???
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Offline greenephantom

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 05:34:55 PM »
I'm probably not going to be much help, but here goes.  

There's two different kickstand cams, long throw and short throw.  From the looks of it you have the correct long throw one, but it's sort of hard to see for sure.

If you have a sturdy bench vise, you can place the kickstand in and give it a squeeze on the top bend and flare it out a bit.

Also, off topic: I've got to give you some grief for the cheesy cranks on your otherwise excellent Jaguar.

Cheers, Geoff
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 05:37:59 PM by greenephantom »
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Offline Buster1

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 06:45:24 PM »
Thanks guys,

It does appear to me to be the angle where the kickstand goes into the frame housing.  Both housings, on both bikes are at the same height above the ground, both kickstands measure exactly the same dimentions.

I did try that...opening up the angle a bit where the kickstand comes out.  I have no vise, so I was wailing on it with a sledge.  Seemed to give it a small change.  Maybe I just need to do more.  I think that I can bend it out a touch along the length of the bar, just making it ever-so slightly curved, and that should help the bike lean a little more nicely.

Lastly: Geoff...how did you spot my incorrect crank!!??  Good eye.  They are not correct and I'm stubborn to buy a new set until I find the perfect ones.   ::)  Man, you are good, and you are correct.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 06:47:12 PM by Buster1 »

Offline GTs58

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 06:58:08 PM »
I have a stupid question. Are the hoops S-7's? In the picture it looks almost like a dropcenter hoop on the front. And the tire profile looks a lot lower than the Jag (smaller tire).
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Offline Buster1

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 07:30:54 PM »
Not stoopid.  No, the Hornet has non-original, matching dropcenters.  My local Schwinn dude put the tires on for me (since I don't have the tools) and they're 26x1.75 repros.  They are essentially the same as the ones on the S7s on the Jag, but they did narrow out due to the rim.  I guess I could put balooners on the rims, but my wife likes the low-friction ride (so far) on these.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 07:34:49 PM by Buster1 »

Offline greenephantom

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 08:01:16 PM »
 I noticed the drop center hoops but it took a while to click.  The original S-7 wheels would be slightly taller than the wheels currently on the bike. Not by much, but perhaps enough to make a difference.
Cheers, Geoff
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Offline GTs58

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 08:21:19 PM »
Okay, now we know some of the possible reasons why the Hornet is almost verticle while resting on the stand. Smaller wheel and possible frame sag. If it were me, I would try a stand off a 24" frame verses trying to bend the original. Viewing the angles of both bikes, it looks like you need a stand maybe a half inch shorter.  ???   
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Offline bartcycle

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 10:47:17 PM »
The Jaguar has a Wald crank.  The difference in the height of the 2 rims  might be enough that the lean is different.

Online OptimusJay

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 06:19:17 AM »
I had a kickstand that was flared too much so that pedaling it would come in contact with the kickstand. I flipped the bike over in the lawn, had a friend hold it securely,  then just used my strength to bend it slightly,  took 10 seconds tops to fix. Give it a shot.
Jay
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Offline FICHT 150

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 09:00:44 AM »
You might get lucky doing that, or, you might end up with the whole assembly, including the brazed mounting tube, in your hand. If you don't care about Momma's bike, do that. Otherwise, take it out and use a vise, to get the bend you need. The bigger the vise, the better. Years ago, I had a friend weld flanges onto a piece of 6" polished, drawn over mandrel, hydraulic ram tube we bought at the scrap yard. One end bolts to the floor of the shop, one ends bolts to the base of a Wilton 5" machinists vise. The Wiltons are keyed between the jaws, and you get a vise that the jaws don't wiggle on as you draw them together, and, I've used it as a small press, in a pinch. The ram tube was filled with recovered lead shot before we bolted the vise down, making the entire assembly "dead blow". If I need to bend a pipe around the vice, I can do it.
 I've never regretted having a great vise in my shop, ever.



Ted
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 09:06:22 AM by FICHT 150 »
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Offline Dan D

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 09:47:53 AM »
Smaller wheel and possible frame sag.
I have been following this post, don't have much to add that hasn't already been asked or said, last night when I read your post GT where you mentioned frame sag  ??? I didn't follow ? I thought maybe it was too late for me to be comprehending much, Lol. This morning after a cup (or two) of coffee I came back to the forum, read the additional replies but I'm still stumped on frame sag ? 

Are you saying that lard butts like myself can actually bend (sag) the frame ?  I have never looked for this when buying a bike, are you joking or does this happen ?

Dan
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Offline Buster1

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 10:44:09 AM »
I don't think my wife's Hornet is sagging (with our without her on it  ;D) but I do believe it is possible.  Maybe not so much on a men's ride, but her Hornet does have some flexing action that is noticeable with the bike upside down on it's seat and bars for maintenance.  A product of having no traditional top tube.

Guess over time it could stay that way.

Offline Dan D

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 12:07:53 PM »
 :-[ oops, I didn't have enough coffee in me yet, I totally overlooked the fact of the design of a womens bike. I can now see how that could be possible with that design.
Dan
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Offline 2112

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Re: Bike Lean; Kickstand Length Problem
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 10:28:07 PM »
 

There's two different kickstand cams, long throw and short throw.  From the looks of it you have the correct long throw one, but it's sort of hard to see for sure.
Cheers, Geoff

Is this true for StingRays too? I have a 63' Stingray with a short stand and it too is completely vertical.